Baratza Virtuoso Coffee Grinder 585

Since I have only had the Virtuoso for three months I will not discuss the long-term quality. Because I use it primarily for press pot, drip and small espresso batches I was not looking to get a solid consumer grinder, like the more expensive Rancilio Rocky or Mazzer Mini.

Previously I have owned a Starbucks Barista (the Solis verson, not the newer Saeco Titan verson) and the Capresso Infinity 560 Black. The Barista had a long and happy life, and after performing the hack (see coffeegeek.com), made great coffee and pretty good espresso. The Capresso was excellent for drip & press coffee, but only adequate for espresso. I would happily recommend each of these for people that just want a pretty solid cup of Joe, and do not mind it being slightly heated in the process. The Capresso was still running solidly, so do not infer it died early (it cheerfully grinds my wife's flax seeds very well now), I just wanted something better for my espresso shots.

After briefly considering the Gaggia MDF I looked at the Virtuoso, mainly for three, important, reasons.

First I was very happy with my Solis/Starbucks grinder, it lasted for over 10 years of heavy use. The hack allowed it to make good espresso. Baratza has been involved with selling the Solis products, and are the designers of the Maestro and Maestro Plus grinder (yes, thats right they are THEIR machines, not Solis). After talking to a few of the locally operated coffee shops, invaluable advice, I was able to learn more about the company.

Second, many of the negative reviews were early in the introduction of the product. What I appreciated, and what the shop owners told me about, is the serious approach to resolving any issues the product has and updating the product itself. Each issue has been addressed, burr design, machine rpm, cleanliness, fineness settings, etc. Important to me was that the later reviews, specially by some of the talking heads, were far better than the earlier versions of the Virtuoso.

Third the current version of the product, it is an affordable ($200 in some cases slightly less) grinder with a professional burr, over 40 settings (it can be easily hacked to allow for finer or coarser settingsomething I have not needed to do yet. That information is posted in the FAQ of the Baratza website), and lower rpm motor (very important if you do not wish to heat the ground beans, or use a heavy French Roast as I do). It is easy to clean with the supplied brush, but hand wash and rinse well, the washable parts. Absolutely do not wash the container in the dishwasher, unless you wish destroy the anti-static properties of the container, plus it isn't necessary.

After figuring out what settings work best for my three purposes, I am getting a coffee that is as good as I would get in even some of the better local establishments in Portland. My espresso is not quite as good, but then I do not have Mazzer's and a thousand dollar plus espresso machine. For my purposes the espresso is far better than I have made on my own in the past.

It may be only a perception, but it seems as though I am using fewer beans as I have in the past as well, important as coffee prices rise. This is a great grinder for its niche, one can get better, but you will have to pay more, and be seriously addicted to Barista quality espresso.

I have had this grinder since March 2006. It grinds magnificently and is extremely well built. It is by far the cleanest grinder (no spewed grinds everywhere) I have had, and I have had MANY. I recently had an issue were a small rock somehow got into the grinder and caused the gears to strip. One call to customer service and they mailed me a replacement no questions asked! Fantastic!!!

As for the negative review prior to thisFile it as uninformed. The grind catcher fits into the machine very snug, this is a good thing because it prevents the grinds from flying all over your countertop. The motor is very powerful (unless you try to grind rocks, see above) and grinds the beans with a low pitched growl. This is a terrific grinder with unparalleled customer support. I highy recommend this grinder.

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I have had this grinder for over a year. It provides a very uniform grind over a wide range of settings. Recently, I had to adjust the grind calibration settings back to original spec by removing the hood & adjusting one screw. Instructions are on the web site, no problem. The grinder grinds again as when new. Quibbles: 1. When turned to the maximum setting, the timer does not keep the grinder grinding long enough to produce enough coffee for a twelve cup maker. You have to turn the timer again for more coffee. 2. Like a number of burr grinders I have used, the beans occasionally hang up in the feeder so that the grinder is running but no beans are being ground. This is more likely to happen with large and/or "candy" finished dark roast beans. Cleaning helps but does not eliminate this problem. Turning the grind adjustment ring to the max while the grinder is running clears up the stoppage, but it is an annoying glitch. Still, produces great coffee.

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I use my Virtuoso for drip brewing and for French Press. It quickly chews my coffee beans precisely the way both devices demand; fine for drip and medium to lightly course for French Press. Great coffee flavor all starts with your grinder. Works just ducky. Very pleased!

If you are looking for a quality, durable grinder for fine-side grind for drip, vacuum pot, open pot, or pour-over coffee it is perfect. If you need a uniform course grind for your French press/Press pot you have just struck gold. My Technivorm loves it. And so does my coarser-grind loving Frieling French Press.

I am writing a book on the best goods out there, under the radar. The Virtuoso will be recommended as THE coffee bean grinder for Everything but Espresso, the title of a must-buy book by Scott Rao. For espresso you might need a finer grind than the Virtuosos provides, UNLESS you adjust the burrs finer per Baratza Customer Service's simple instructions.

Sweet Maria's Coffee in the West and Terroir Coffee in the East, excellent sources for anything coffee, both purveyors of green coffee beans for home roasting, along with roasted beans and coffee machines for all methods of brewing, tell me that the Virtuoso is the perfect match for Technivorm and BonaVita drip brewers (two of only four drip coffee brewers to be Certified by the Specialty Coffee Association of America). This grinder would also be the perfect match for Behmor's new, innovative BraZen drip brewer.

The Virtuoso is the most often recommended grinder for French Press, especially this 585 model with the Precisco burr set. I agree. So, here is my review:

PROS:

1) SIMPLE TO OPERATE: The capacious bean hopper is steep-walled so no beans hang up; the lid ensures the beans do not hop out of the hopper, very hip. To grind, at a zippy speed of one gram per second, one can use the pulse button on the front.

Use the clever,optional, portafilter holder to receive the grinds for espresso. Usually I use the timer knob on the side to the mark I need for my 24 grams of beans. I am machine-challenged at 5:30 AM so grinding MUST be simple, and it is, but I will admit to being so morning-rummy that I once tossed my grounds into my mug instead of my brewer.

2) DURABLE: mine is running perfectly after four years of daily use, sometimes twice a day. I mean not ONE single problem--nada, zip. Shame on me, I am very lax about cleaning my grinder, yet it keeps on chewing those beans to perfection. After some time passes, if I sniff the Virtuoso and detect the sharp rancid nose of stale coffee oils I then do something about it...same as with any grinder you buy.

3) HANDSOME STYLING: The Virtuoso looks good, looks no-nonsense. It looks like quality, and is; built with solid chunks of heavy-looking, actually heavy, brushed metal.

4) HEAVY WEIGHT: makes it secure and relatively vibration absorbing...it does not travel across the counter...it just sits there grinding away.

5) QUIET: not too noisy, as grinders can be. But just enough sound to awaken the slacker(s) upstairs in bed prior to smelling the coffee...hear the grinder and salivate.

6) EASY TO CLEAN: I run a couple of cycles of "Minute Rice" through it (coffee flavored rice is really great! NOT. Just kidding). I know, I know, Baratza will not like to hear that I am abusing their equipment. Cleans it right up. Oh, you can buy grinder cleaners too, of course, like Grindz...good stuff.

7) THE GROUNDS BIN: doubles as a container when I weigh my beans for grinding. Just sit it on your scale, click it on, self-tares to 0 grams, dose with beans, dump the beans in the Virtuoso hopper, place grind bin in the grinder, then grind. It's that simple. Rinse well, or wash WITHOUT perfumed dish liquid, and NEVER wash it in the dishwasher (ruins the anti-static coating).

Dosing: 24g of beans per 400ml water for American Standard coffee, 26g per 400ml water for European Standard coffee, which equals the ratio recommended by the SCAA: 8.25g beans per 150ml water. Go with the SCAA dose, usually, depending upon the single-origin coffee beans used, roast level, and freshness).

8) STRONG BEAST: built like a tank, solid body with chunk metal where it's need most, and a big muthuh of a cord. Heavy Duty. No toy grinder here...perfect for a mid-level pro-sumer espresso machine.

9) THE PRICE IS EXCELLENT FOR THE QUALITY: this is no toy grinder, not all plastic either, just some. It's for us grown-ups. Its $199 price balanced against the price of a good French Press, vac. pot, or pour over (Avg. $40-$75) startles the owners of such brewing gear, but they soon discover that those whirly-blade bean-whackers produce dust-and-boulders, so they eventually bite the bullet and pay their dues after they wise-up. Or, compromise and choose the Baratza Encore ($129).

But I must say, this Virtuoso at $199 is a significant quality improvement over the Encore. For espresso, move up to the remarkable Baratza Virtuoso Preciso with additional conical burr teeth, and far more adjustments, at $299. Even better is the Baratza Vario at $449, with enough enough lights and electronics on the face to compete with Darth Vader's belt, and takes bean grinding where no grinder has gone before...perfect for your mid-priced prosumer espresso machine.

Or, check out Baratza's worthy competition: Gaggia MM or MDF or the Rancilio Rocky doserless. Or go insane with a dearly priced Mazzer Mini espresso grinder.

But I must add that the Vario is now overrunning the Rancilio and Mazzer offerings by a landslide. Why? Equally outstanding performance at an affordable price, coupled with unbelievably good customer service here in the States.

If you ever have questions or need repairs or replacement parts, the legendary Baratza Customer Service folks are willing to guide you if you prefer to DIY, which is fairly easy to do, so say other reviewers, and I believe them. Saves lots of time, keeps your grinder at home, and saves on shipping costs. Welcome to the Baratza Barista Club, people.

10) EXCELLENT BURR SET. This the same Precisco burr set used with the Preciso grinder itself. It grinds almost professionally from espresso, through press, to drip. Mark Prince of coffeegeek tested the preciso's burr performance and said that it produces the least amount of fines of ANY Baratza grinder, even the Vario! The consistency and evenness of its grind is simply amazing.

This is good news for drip coffee, especially if, you use gold filters instead of paper ones for the same reasons French is fines sensitive, and it is headlines for French press aficianados because it is the fines that pass through the plunger's metal mesh filter, becoming that silt at the bottom of the cup. This burr set will dramatically reduce that. See Mark Prince's coffeegeek test and review of the Preciso grinder on the opinions section, and at the bottom of the article is a link to his excellent white paper and scientific tests of all Baratza grinders.

11) WRAPPING IT UP: The Baratza Virtuoso is excellent for "Everything but Espresso," the title of a good book on non-espresso coffee by Scott Rao. Highly recommended for vac pot, open pot, filter drip, immersion, pour over, drip coffee, and French press/Press pot.

If you use any of the above brew methods the Virtuoso is the sweet spot. Its fan base is just huge in the Specialty Coffee world. And it will last for years, just replace the burr set every few years. Yeah, I like it, yeah I love it. So will you. (I get carried away, so please pardon the fanboy pom poms here).

For espresso, the Virtuoso 585 is a good entry level machine for entry-level espresso machines if you hack the burr set adjustment according to Baratza's Customer Service instructions. of its upgraded Preciso burr set that produces an extremely low percentage of fines, it is the best grbecause inder you can buy for French press/press pot. Accordingly, those new burrs make it a high end drip, pour-over, vac pot, and Chemex grinder.

It should be mentioned that this 585 model is now discontinued because ALL new preciso models will come with Preciso burr sets! For espresso, you want the Preciso itself with its extra grind adjustment ring to fine tune, and dial in for superior shots, but you should look at the Vario, and Vario W before deciding...see coffeegeek's incomparable take on Baratza models.

12) REPLACEMENT PARTS ARE RATHER INEXPENSIVE, TECH ASSISTANCE IS SUPERB, AND WEBSITE REPAIR TUTORIALS WITH PHOTOS ARE USER-FRIENDLY. This is what Baratza is known for...they really do care if you are a happy owner of their products. No other grinder maker can come in with such super grinders at such a low price, then stand behind them 100. Rah! Rah!

CONS:

1) THE TIMER KNOB SOMETIMES FALLS OFF: it happens maybe one every month or so, but in like 5 seconds it is back in place. Solution? I use a dab of rubber cement on the timer knob shaft to keep the knob where it belongs, but easy to remove if I ever need to access the interior which requires removing the timer knob.

On the Baratza website, troubleshooting section, they will show you how to fix the problem with tape and a mega paper clip...look likes it will work fine. No biggie for me, folks.

SUMMARY: do I love my Virtuoso? In proportion to the trouble I took writing all this blah blah for you. Hell yeah!

MY BLOG: For those of you shopping for the best products available, please see my new blog at Blogspot.com, where I also post my five star Amazon reviews as it addresses only the best products:"

ONLY THE BEST: Prosumer and Consumer Product Reviews

Prosumer products: High performance, high durability products designed for professional, commercial, or industrial use where the emphasis is on function and not appearance, yet are also be available to the public. Consumer products: Lower performance, lower durability products designed for the public where the emphasis is on appearance and not function in the mass market. Let us find Only The Best products in each category. My reviews are based on hands-on, objective testing--Carl V. May

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Very difficult for me to understand the negative reviews! It makes me wonder if Baratza has released different products under the same name... I've had mine for two weeks and it's worked very well for me. It doesn't do espresso as well as the Mazzer Minis that I keep at my coffeehouse, but it delivers! But then, I would never use my Mazzer for drip. If you want a grinder that can handle espresso AND drip AND french press, this one is an excellent choice. I had the Capresso Infinity and I never managed to get a good shot out of it. I'm very satisfied. It's built well too, easy to clean. I grow fonder of it every day.

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KRUPS XP1020 Steam Espresso Machine with 4-Cup Glass Carafe, Black

Do not understand why this item has so many bad reviews. It is not a bad machine!

My last expresso machine was also a Krups steam powered. Lasted for 13 years until it fell apart last week (the prssure valve inside broke). For my replacement machine, I was looking at fully automatic ones (Magnifica, $900), pump based (like cuisineart em-200, $200), and steam powered (like this item, $50). After reading all the review and knowing how pump based machine works, I decided not to go for them. The main reasons are they require a lot of maintenance and they can break down easily. I just do not want high pressure stuff in my house. If it breaks down, it may take a month or two to fix it. After warranty is over, it is more expensive to fix than buying a new one. I basically want a reliable espresso machine which can last 10 years with very little mainenance.

I typically makes a few shots in the morning as soon as I get up. I just do not see how pump based or full automatic machine can save me time. They require preheat which can take 1-5 minutes. For steam based ones, I just load up the coffee and water and wait. Both would give me pretty good espresso after 5-7 minutes.

As far as flavor goes, I do not really feel any difference between my cheap machine and starbucks/peet's coffee, given using the same coffee. I think good espresso got more to do with type of coffee then the machine. Started drinking espresso drinks heavily in college in 80s, I think I am pretty picky on coffee.

I saw a local store carries this item at $49. I decided to give it a try since they have pretty liberal return policy. It turns out to be a pretty good machine, better than my old Krups and with high pressure.

The good:

(1) Pretty good looking among entry machines, although the price is $10 more than ugly ones.

(2) Makes good espresso drinks quickly

The not so good:

(1) The knob takes time to get used to. The knob has three seetings: off, steam and espresso. It is pretty easy for people to turn on steam when they want espresso, a potentially dangerous situation. Krups should have separate power button instead.

(2) The power cord is kind of short, 6 inch shorter than my old one.

(3) It is pretty hard to heat up the milk straight from the frig. You more likely to have a bunch of cold foams. The better way is to heat up the mil in microwave and then use the steam to make foam.

Overall, I recommend it as an entry machine.

I've had one of these machines for several years and I just ordered another one for our vacation home. The beverage it produces is just as good as any. I use decent beans (Starbucks or comparable) and normal espressso grind. I rarely drink latte or cap, since I prefer full coffee flavor, but on the occasions I have, this machine has done a fine job. I agree with another reviewer that the plastic tube on the steam outlet isn't really necessary.

____________________

UPDATE:

I've had a chance to use the new machine a few times. Observations:

--At least one user reported odd chemical or plastic odor when using. I have not observed this.

--Someone expressed dissatisfaction with the need to steam the milk before making the coffee. This is NOT necessary. The instructions do recommend steaming the milk first, but this is only to avoid the frustration of using almost all the water/steam pressure when making the coffee, only to find that there isn't enough left to steam the milk adequately. The milk steaming process uses only a fraction of the amount of water used to make an espresso, so under normal circumstances there should be enough left if you do the coffee first. Because of back pressure caused by compression of the coffee during the espresso process, after the coffee stops dripping out there is still quite a bit of steam left in the machine.

--Someone complained that there is no tamper. This isn't a commercial machine, and it can't handle enough pressure to make espresso with a fine grind if it's packed very tightly. The instructions recommend NOT packing the coffee tightly. So the lack of a tamper is not a problem. You can use a small spoon to pack the coffee GENTLY.

--The container for the coffee is a very tight fit when you thread it into the machine, and it takes a lot of pressure/force to get the handle turned all the way to the front to the locked position. My previous machine was like this, too; it loosens up to normal very quickly with use. (If you were a fan of "Are You Being Served, this may remind you of the oft-repeated line, "Don't worry, they'll ride up with wear.")

--TIP: You can save some cleaning time by folding up a paper towel (in fourths)and putting it under the metal grate that goes beneath the coffee cup and catches drips. Every day or so, take out the paper towel and put in a new one. The paper will absorb drips and spills and changing it is easier than sopping up coffee that has dripped and pooled in the recessed area beneath the metal grate

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To those who complain about the lack of a steaming container: use the carafe. They don't advertise a special steaming container, so why expect one?

TIP: even if you use filtered water, the water will have dissolved minerals which create scale inside the machine. This may be the cause of slow brewing, excessive steam escaping, etc. Scale can cause this. To remove scale: pour a 50% solution (1/2 water, 1/2 vinegar) of distilled white vinegar into the machine. Screw the cap back on. Put the clean, empty metal coffee filter on, and put the carafe under the spout in the usual way. Turn on the machine. In effect, you're making a carafe of espresso without the coffee. Let the machine run until no more hot solution comes out. You will smell a strong vinegar smell. Pour out the carafe, rinse, and refill the machine with clean water. Run the water through the machine, just as you did with the vingar solution. This will clean any residual vinegar out. The whole process takes 5 min or less, and you will be amazed at how much quicker you can make your espresso.

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UPDATE #2

I have used the unit for over a month--about 4 times per day (OK, I'm hooked). Still working great, very quick, good results.

Buy KRUPS XP1020 Steam Espresso Machine with 4-Cup Glass Carafe, Black Now

Granted, I worked at a starbucks for a little while after high school so I kind of knew the work that it could take to steam a pitcher of milk and pull a shot of espresso.

For the price, I think this is a great starter if you're strapped for cash or want to dabble with espresso & latte preparation. I've had mine for 2 years now. It's the first one I ever bought. I've had to replace the coffee grind holder/handle once (for about $13), but other than that, i've had no problems. read the directions, they are great. they inform you that pressure builds within the machine and if you do not properly release the pressure upon completion, then yes, it will explode the grinds all over you. duh.

it's pretty easy to clean and maintain. I bought a brush to clean the steaming wand.

It does not come with a frothing pitcher or a beverage thermometer (which i recommend) but they are both pretty inxpensive. I ordered one of each when i ordered my machine.

regarding timing, i put the water in my machine and it begins steaming within 1 minute-1 1/2 minute TOPS. Then when i'm done steaming my milk, i switch it right to the coffee setting and it dispenses my coffee instantly. thats good enough for me!

Hope this review is helpful. i've recommended this to many friends and I think its fantastic for the money.

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I've made great cappuccino for many years using a similar machine. Better than store-bought. I thought the bad-mouthing reviewers simply didn't know what they were doing. Well, I filled my 1020 with the correct amount of water and used a reliably good espresso grind, turned on the machine and waited. And waited. And waited. Eventually, a pathetic dribble of coffee came down. At the appropriate time, I turned the knob to froth the milk. I burned my finger on the jet of steam issuing from the knob-hole on the side of the unit. A weak fizzle came out of the frothing nozzle which never increased in volume. I gave up here and went back to making the coffee there was no more water to make steam. It had disappeared somewhere inside the machine and onto my countertop. This was such a complete failure that it was almost funny. Fortunately, I bought it locally, and can return it. I left little notes here and there in the packaging saying that this machine is a dud, and could burn you.

I feel that Krups should recall these machines forthwith. They are a complete waste of money for the consumer, and a black eye for the maker.

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I just got one of these for Christmas to replace a similar unit I used for years. The first time I tried it, it spewed water and coffee grounds all over. It practically blew up! I reduced the amount of coffee (a good Italian espresso, pre-ground fine), and the same thing happened. According to the trouble-shooting guide, the grind was too fine. I tried a coarse grind with no blowups, but the coffee was wimpy. Apparently, this espresso machine wasn't meant to make espresso coffee. This never happened with my previous unit. Pass this one up. It is simply a piece of junk.